Talk:ListenLog - Revision history

Khopper: /* Provisional Control Over User Data */

2009-03-06T13:47:28Z

Provisional Control Over User Data

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:47, 6 March 2009
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	==Provisional Control Over User Data==		==Provisional Control Over User Data==

	ListenLog is not trying to replicate [http://attentiontrust.org AttentionTrust]. ~~The~~ goal ~~here~~ is not to make privacy demands or ~~sell our behavior~~ data for a share of ad revenue. ListenLog will provide an aggregated set of activity data across ~~your~~ listening applications for ~~you~~ to use, analyze, and share.		ListenLog is not trying to replicate [http://attentiontrust.org AttentionTrust]. Our goal is not to make privacy demands or propose selling listening data for a share of ad revenue. ListenLog will provide an aggregated set of activity data across an individual's listening applications for them to use, analyze, and share. Within most media applications, individuals do not have access to their application activity data and can not use or share it how they choose. We are proposing to change that.

	This does not mean that an application vendor or the media providers who host ListenLog functionality will not also store and use ~~your~~ activity data (yes, they should have a privacy policy clarifying this). In this case, the user does not have control over their ~~activity~~ data. ~~They can~~ not move it away, delete it, or dictate how it can be used~~. This is the case with virtually every website/online application in existence~~.		This does not mean that an application vendor or the media providers who host ListenLog functionality will not also store and use user activity data for their own purposes (yes, they should have a privacy policy clarifying this). In this case, the user does not have control over their data. With virtually every website/online application in existence, the user does not have the ability to move their activity data away, delete it, or dictate how it can be used.

	Perhaps the only way we will get vendors to deploy LL is to embrace those that support ~~this technology~~ in addition to tracking the ~~information on their own~~, rather than instead of it.		Perhaps the only way we will get vendors to deploy LL is to embrace those that support LL in addition to any tracking the vendor might already be doing, rather than instead of it.

	Baby steps.		Baby steps.

	[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 20:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 20:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Khopper: /* Provisional Control Over User Data */

2009-03-06T13:41:20Z

Provisional Control Over User Data

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:41, 6 March 2009
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	==Provisional Control Over User Data==		==Provisional Control Over User Data==

	ListenLog is not [http://attentiontrust.org AttentionTrust]. The goal is not to make privacy demands or sell our behavior data for a share of ad revenue. ~~The goal is to~~ provide an aggregated set of activity data across your listening applications for you to use, analyze, and share.		ListenLog is not trying to replicate [http://attentiontrust.org AttentionTrust]. The goal here is not to make privacy demands or sell our behavior data for a share of ad revenue. ListenLog will provide an aggregated set of activity data across your listening applications for you to use, analyze, and share.

	This does not mean that an application vendor or the media providers who host ListenLog functionality will not also store and use your activity data~~. Sure~~, they ~~SHOULD~~ have a privacy policy clarifying this. In this case, the user does ~~NOT~~ have ~~complete~~ control over their ~~user~~ data. They can not move it away, delete it, or ~~make demands about its use~~. This is the case with virtually every website/online application in existence. ~~While we might want this not to be the case,~~ the only way we will get vendors to ~~play along~~ is to embrace those that support LL in addition to tracking the information on their own, rather than instead of it.		This does not mean that an application vendor or the media providers who host ListenLog functionality will not also store and use your activity data (yes, they should have a privacy policy clarifying this). In this case, the user does not have control over their activity data. They can not move it away, delete it, or dictate how it can be used. This is the case with virtually every website/online application in existence.

			Perhaps the only way we will get vendors to deploy LL is to embrace those that support this technology in addition to tracking the information on their own, rather than instead of it.

	Baby steps.		Baby steps.

	[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 20:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 20:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Khopper: /* Provisional Control Over User Data */

2009-03-05T20:48:16Z

Provisional Control Over User Data

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:48, 5 March 2009
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	ListenLog is not [http://attentiontrust.org AttentionTrust]. The goal is not to make privacy demands or sell our behavior data for a share of ad revenue. The goal is to provide an aggregated set of activity data across your listening applications for you to use, analyze, and share.		ListenLog is not [http://attentiontrust.org AttentionTrust]. The goal is not to make privacy demands or sell our behavior data for a share of ad revenue. The goal is to provide an aggregated set of activity data across your listening applications for you to use, analyze, and share.

	This does not mean that an application vendor or the media providers will not also store and use your activity data. Sure, they SHOULD have a privacy policy clarifying this. In this case, the user does NOT have complete control over their user data. They can not move it away, delete it, or make demands about its use. This is the case with virtually every website/online application in existence. While we might want this not to be the case, the only way we will get vendors to play along is to embrace those that support LL in addition to tracking the information on their own, rather than instead of it.		This does not mean that an application vendor or the media providers who host ListenLog functionality will not also store and use your activity data. Sure, they SHOULD have a privacy policy clarifying this. In this case, the user does NOT have complete control over their user data. They can not move it away, delete it, or make demands about its use. This is the case with virtually every website/online application in existence. While we might want this not to be the case, the only way we will get vendors to play along is to embrace those that support LL in addition to tracking the information on their own, rather than instead of it.

	Baby steps.		Baby steps.

	[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 20:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 20:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Khopper: /* Provisional Control Over User Data */

2009-03-05T20:47:25Z

Provisional Control Over User Data

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:47, 5 March 2009
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	==Provisional Control Over User Data==		==Provisional Control Over User Data==

	ListenLog is not [[http://attentiontrust.org AttentionTrust]]. The goal is not to make privacy demands or sell our behavior data for a share of ad revenue. The goal is to provide an aggregated set of activity data across your listening applications for you to use, analyze, and share.		ListenLog is not [http://attentiontrust.org AttentionTrust]. The goal is not to make privacy demands or sell our behavior data for a share of ad revenue. The goal is to provide an aggregated set of activity data across your listening applications for you to use, analyze, and share.

	This does not mean that an application vendor or the media providers will not also store and use your activity data. Sure, they SHOULD have a privacy policy clarifying this. In this case, the user does NOT have complete control over their user data. They can not move it away, delete it, or make demands about its use. This is the case with virtually every website/online application in existence. While we might want this not to be the case, the only way we will get vendors to play along is to embrace those that support LL in addition to tracking the information on their own, rather than instead of it.		This does not mean that an application vendor or the media providers will not also store and use your activity data. Sure, they SHOULD have a privacy policy clarifying this. In this case, the user does NOT have complete control over their user data. They can not move it away, delete it, or make demands about its use. This is the case with virtually every website/online application in existence. While we might want this not to be the case, the only way we will get vendors to play along is to embrace those that support LL in addition to tracking the information on their own, rather than instead of it.

Khopper: /* Provisional Control Over User Data */

2009-03-05T20:47:08Z

Provisional Control Over User Data

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:47, 5 March 2009
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	Baby steps.		Baby steps.

			[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 20:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Khopper at 20:46, 5 March 2009

2009-03-05T20:46:34Z

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-===Users Might Object===
+==Users Might Object==
 Some individuals might perceive the ListenLog as yet another mechanism for aggregating personal attention data that will (or at least could) be used or used indiscriminately by a third party. There are four aspects of this concern, depending on how the LL concept is presented and implemented:
 # Knee-jerk negative reaction to the concept of personal/attention data being monitored. This reaction is prior to any consideration as to why and for whom the data might be used.
@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 Point 2 above is why we formed the Mydex Community Interest Company, a social enterprise; we believe this helps (although does not fully overcome) perceptions that the data is being used for anyone other than the originator. By all means use Mydex in your 'store the data somewhere agnostic' approach if that would be helpful - we can discuss the details. Iain

Iain.Henderson: /* Users Might Object */

2009-02-05T22:48:07Z

Users Might Object

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:48, 5 February 2009
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	[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 15:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Khopper\|Khopper]] 15:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

			Point 2 above is why we formed the Mydex Community Interest Company, a social enterprise; we believe this helps (although does not fully overcome) perceptions that the data is being used for anyone other than the originator. By all means use Mydex in your 'store the data somewhere agnostic' approach if that would be helpful - we can discuss the details. Iain

Khopper: /* Users Might Object */

2009-02-03T13:00:25Z

Users Might Object

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:00, 3 February 2009
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	===Users Might Object===		===Users Might Object===
	Some individuals might perceive the ListenLog as yet another mechanism for aggregating personal attention data that will (or at least could) be used or used indiscriminately by a third party. There are four aspects of this concern, depending on how the LL concept is presented and implemented:		Some individuals might perceive the ListenLog as yet another mechanism for aggregating personal attention data that will (or at least could) be used or used indiscriminately by a third party. There are four aspects of this concern, depending on how the LL concept is presented and implemented:
	# Knee-jerk negative reaction to the concept of personal/attention data being monitored ~~at all~~. This reaction is prior to any consideration as to why and for whom the data might be used.		# Knee-jerk negative reaction to the concept of personal/attention data being monitored. This reaction is prior to any consideration as to why and for whom the data might be used.
	# Assumption that whenever personal data is captured, it is captured ultimately on behalf of a vendor, even if users are told otherwise. The default assumption is that data is stored and used by the vendor who is in control of the current user experience, e.g. whomever distributes this software application or hosts this website. The assumption might be that it is used by an unwarranted vendor or that if explicit permission is given, the data might be used in an unwarranted fashion (e.g. when you provide your phone number to a vendor who then later uses it to solicit you).		# Assumption that whenever personal data is captured, it is captured ultimately on behalf of a vendor, even if users are told otherwise. The default assumption is that data is stored and used by the vendor who is in control of the current user experience, e.g. whomever distributes this software application or hosts this website. The assumption might be that it is used by an unwarranted vendor or that if explicit permission is given, the data might be used in an unwarranted fashion (e.g. when you provide your phone number to a vendor who then later uses it to solicit you).
	# Concern that even if the data is owned or controlled by users, it might eventually be compromised, e.g. by a malicious 3rd party, oppressive government, legal body, etc. who can tie this data to me. Since we intend to store the data remotely, this might aggravate the concern.		# Concern that even if the data is owned or controlled by users, it might eventually be compromised, e.g. by a malicious 3rd party, oppressive government, legal body, etc. who can tie this data to me. Since we intend to store the data remotely, this might aggravate the concern.

Khopper: /* Users Might Object */

2009-02-02T17:32:42Z

Users Might Object

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:32, 2 February 2009
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	# Assumption that whenever personal data is captured, it is captured ultimately on behalf of a vendor, even if users are told otherwise. The default assumption is that data is stored and used by the vendor who is in control of the current user experience, e.g. whomever distributes this software application or hosts this website. The assumption might be that it is used by an unwarranted vendor or that if explicit permission is given, the data might be used in an unwarranted fashion (e.g. when you provide your phone number to a vendor who then later uses it to solicit you).		# Assumption that whenever personal data is captured, it is captured ultimately on behalf of a vendor, even if users are told otherwise. The default assumption is that data is stored and used by the vendor who is in control of the current user experience, e.g. whomever distributes this software application or hosts this website. The assumption might be that it is used by an unwarranted vendor or that if explicit permission is given, the data might be used in an unwarranted fashion (e.g. when you provide your phone number to a vendor who then later uses it to solicit you).
	# Concern that even if the data is owned or controlled by users, it might eventually be compromised, e.g. by a malicious 3rd party, oppressive government, legal body, etc. who can tie this data to me. Since we intend to store the data remotely, this might aggravate the concern.		# Concern that even if the data is owned or controlled by users, it might eventually be compromised, e.g. by a malicious 3rd party, oppressive government, legal body, etc. who can tie this data to me. Since we intend to store the data remotely, this might aggravate the concern.
	# As a user, why would I choose to do this? Since LL will ~~like~~ have the ability for individuals to opt-in or opt-out, why would someone choose to collect their own data? What's in it for them? There might be built-in resistance without a compelling use case.		# As a user, why would I choose to do this? Since LL will likely have the ability for individuals to opt-in or opt-out, why would someone choose to collect their own data? What's in it for them? There might be built-in resistance without a compelling use case.

	What might we do to address these concerns? Here are some suggestions I propose:		What might we do to address these concerns? Here are some suggestions I propose:
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	* Store the data somewhere agnostic and other than on the application or vendor servers (I recommend Berkman servers)		* Store the data somewhere agnostic and other than on the application or vendor servers (I recommend Berkman servers)
	* Transmit data securely		* Transmit data securely
	* Automatically and by default store all data fully encrypted (i.e. "locked"). As an alternative to opt-in, users would need to "unlock their data" (this action would decrypt it wholesale) in order to get access to functionality or to share the data externally. Users could lock, unlock, delete all of their data at will. Users could also opt-out of capturing data in the first place.		* Automatically and by default store all data fully encrypted (i.e. "locked"). As an alternative to opt-in, users would need to "unlock their data" (this action would decrypt it wholesale) in order to get access to functionality or to share the data externally. Users could lock, unlock, and delete all of their data at will. Users could also opt-out of capturing data in the first place.
	** Perhaps lock and unlock could apply to different sub-sets of data, e.g. location data		** Perhaps lock and unlock could apply to different sub-sets of data, e.g. location data
	* Don't build any ability to share data into first version		* Don't build any ability to share data into first version

Khopper at 17:27, 2 February 2009

2009-02-02T17:27:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:27, 2 February 2009
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	===Users Might Object===		===Users Might Object===
	~~A potential concern with~~ ListenLog ~~is that many may perceive it~~ as yet another mechanism for aggregating personal attention data that will (or at least could) be used or used indiscriminately by a third party. There are four aspects of this concern, depending on how the LL concept is presented and implemented:		Some individuals might perceive the ListenLog as yet another mechanism for aggregating personal attention data that will (or at least could) be used or used indiscriminately by a third party. There are four aspects of this concern, depending on how the LL concept is presented and implemented:
	# Knee-jerk negative reaction to the concept of personal/attention data being monitored at all. This reaction is prior to any consideration as to why and for whom the data might be used.		# Knee-jerk negative reaction to the concept of personal/attention data being monitored at all. This reaction is prior to any consideration as to why and for whom the data might be used.
	# Assumption that whenever personal data is captured, it is captured ultimately on behalf of a vendor, even if users are told otherwise. The default assumption is that data is stored and used by the vendor who is in control of the current user experience, e.g. whomever distributes this software application or hosts this website. The assumption might be that it is used by an unwarranted vendor or that if explicit permission is given, the data might be used in an unwarranted fashion (e.g. when you provide your phone number to a vendor who then later uses it to solicit you).		# Assumption that whenever personal data is captured, it is captured ultimately on behalf of a vendor, even if users are told otherwise. The default assumption is that data is stored and used by the vendor who is in control of the current user experience, e.g. whomever distributes this software application or hosts this website. The assumption might be that it is used by an unwarranted vendor or that if explicit permission is given, the data might be used in an unwarranted fashion (e.g. when you provide your phone number to a vendor who then later uses it to solicit you).